The Ridiculous Expectations of Women—not Men

Remember that time you were hanging out with your female friends and someone started an intelligent conversation about how women’s body image problems seem to stem more from female expectations rather than male’s? Remember the inquisitive looks on the face of all your friends as their expressions changed to one that reflected a profound realization, a truly “Eureka” moment? And then remember when all of the females in the group conceded that, indeed, the blame for all of these body image issues did not fall solely on the shoulders of men, but rather more likely, on the shoulders of corporate greed which seeks to exploit women? Do you recall then, that all of those women decided that there was no need to lay the blame on men alone anymore, and that feminism was about choice which included the choice to reject the messages of beauty advertising?

Do you remember that time?…

Yea, I don’t either…

As a male, you can’t exist amid a mass media culture of beauty without being crucified for your perceived expectations of women. Everywhere you go as an adult male, there’s some female discussion group bashing you over the head for liking big breasts or a tight booty. It was during college when I began to notice that it was mostly WOMEN talking about what MEN liked—and not just talking, but rather proclaiming the desires of men as if it were gospel. Unless asked directly, a man seemed to rarely voice his love for DD cup sizes or a milkshake booty that could inspire an entire hit song. In fact, it’s been my experience that most often it’s women that begin these kinds of discussions, uniting under one banner of progressive militant feminism that aims to “punish” men for liking boobs.

During such discussions it’s become overwhelmingly trite for females to cite the airbrushed photos of beautifully proportioned women featured in magazine ads (which are usually for women’s products). The conversation will linger here for a bit while women bring in the heavy artillery, promulgating the evils of Adobe Photoshop and other computer media technology which are used to perfect female images. Then the conversation will predictable head over to modern cosmetic surgery. The females of the group will talk about how they are practically “forced” to feel like they need bigger boobs and smaller waistlines. So of course, at the end of all this, the entire goal of their ranting about female body images in the media is to concluded that women are the helpless victims of the unrealistic expectations of men. Some extreme leftist feminists will even go as far as proclaiming that men’s expectations of women are a form of continued oppressive control meant to dominate women, and that such positions of men have caused the emergence of psychiatric disorders such as anorexia and bulimia. Uhhh ladies… you’re giving us wayyyyy too much credit.

Of course the key points to remember here are that these expectations of men are perceived by women to be UNREALISTIC, and that such expectations are what is causing the social oppression of women. According to this rationale, this would mean that male values for an average woman would have to be nearly unattainable by a majority of the female population. Simply put, 51% or more of women would have to be considered “below average” by men, therefore making the average expectations of men something that most women could not satisfy. A finding of this statistic would indeed give merit to the idea that the expectations of men have contributed directly to the self-confidence and body issues associated with the macro-psychology of female culture. However, you won’t find these numbers at all. In fact, what you will find will probably surprise women, but the guys…well we knew this all along.

The online dating site OkayCupid.com takes time to compile and organize information about its users, and subsequently posts this information on their website. One such analysis looked at the ratings of women by men and visa versa. What they found was that that men rated 90% of women as being “average looking”, and therefore rating only 5% as being “unattractive” and %5 as being “very attractive”. If you’re familiar with statistics, these numbers are very close to a normal bell curve, which means to represent the ultimate paradigm in the (NORMAL) distribution of data—90% of the data is always in the “average range”, while only a small minority will exist in the extremes or “UNREALISTIC” poles of the spectrum. What this really means is that men’s expectations for women’s attractiveness is completely attainable, as 95% percent of women are seen by men as being either “average looking” or “very attractive”.

Now for my favorite part. Hold on to your panties ladies. And the men? No surprise here, but please execute the “I told you so” speech with extreme caution in the presence of females, as you will not be getting laid that evening. Anyway, according to the same compilation of data, women rated 80% of men as being less than “average looking”. This means that less than 20% of men had a shot of even being average looking, and that less than 5% could be considered as “very attractive”. These numbers suggest that, unlike the expectations of men where 95% of women had a chance of being considered average looking or better, only a little more than 20% of men have a shot at even being seen as average looking.

What does this mean for the big picture? It means that regardless of what women PERCEIVE the expectations of men to be, they’re wrong. The NORMAL expectations of men allow for more than 90% of women to fit the bill, while, on the other hand, the UNREALISTIC expectations of women allow for MAYBE 20% of men to fit the bill. I can personally attest to the fact that while I enjoy looking at big breasts and a fine booty, they aren’t requirements for me to find a woman attractive. I want to look at big breasts, but I don’t want to date them—true story. I prefer to date a woman with smaller breasts.

So if men aren’t the ultimate source of body image perfection being imposed on women, then where else are all these ideas about unattainable body images coming from? Well, women of course. While images of beautiful women are used to get the attention of consumers from every market and demographic, they are most concentrated in the sale of women’s products. From makeup and hair products to diet solutions, beautiful images of women aren’t featured in such ads to in order to get men to buy these products; they are featured in order to convince women that they too can look this gorgeous if they spend $30 on shampoo. All this business about the unattainable expectations of men is really a distorted reflection of what women THINK men want, which in turn is amplified and imposed on other women as: the only means to get a man to love you is to get surgery, stop eating, and destroy your self-respect. Absolute silliness.

In one survey, men were asked if they preferred to date skinny women or overweight women:

85% of men said that dating a woman who was a few pounds overweight didn’t bother them. While only 15% said the preferred to date a skinny woman.


In the same survey, women were asked if they felt overweight women have a harder time dating:


90.0% women believed that men couldn’t see past a few pounds and that heavier women absolutely have a harder time dating because of this. Only 10% of women believed that weight didn’t have much to do with why heavier women were single.

 

THE BOTTOM LINE.

So what does all of this mean really? It means that disinformation sucks and that it can affect whole populations in a seriously negative way. The pervasive pop culture belief that the unrealistic expectations of men have only served to destroy the self-esteem of women through imposed desires of perfect bodies, is utter non-sense. Though it be absolutely true that there are women who suffer from diminished self-confidence related to body image, when women vote that 80% of men don’t meet their criteria for “average”, that doesn’t suggest a huge confidence problem to me. In my opinion what’s really happening here is a war of women against women in the fight for consumer dollars, and men are just getting clobbered in the mix. Women ages 18-24 spend more money in the consumer market than any other demographic, and because advertising agencies know this, who do you think they are going to target? The body images of women are most commonly expressed in terms of sexiness or “getting and man and keeping him”, whereas men are not so easily demoralized by body image because it’s usually advertised in the context of fitness as a health concern or strength ability.  However, just because ads that feature hot women allude to the desires of men, this doesn’t mean they accurately reflect the true expectations that us men have for the women in our lives. I think the more important questions that need to be asked are: if indeed women do have unrealistic expectations regarding the attractiveness of men, what does that say about the other expectations they have for men? Think about all the expectations one has for their lover or marriage partner: expectations about income, sex, and time spent. In the case of both men and women, I say, let go a little bit and open your tolerance threshold to include a little more wiggle room, because I’m going to let you in on a little secret: the people you’re going to end up with won’t be perfect, and neither are you.

Matthew Rosario

American / Writer / Musician

  • I've found that the more you read on the Internet, the more crazy you feel about these issues. But when you deal with real people, especially in Japan, you feel more calm and at ease with society. I don't know why the Internet has this effect.

  • It's true that no study both on the internet or in real life can ever truth cover all possibilities and scenarios. Indeed when observed over all parts of the world, within other micro communities in rural areas and such, these statistics are wrong. However, they are valid statistic nonetheless. I think what people often try to do when confronted by these statistic is they think about the most salient examples the know of to refute the statistics. They used the stories of a few isolated incidents or even 20 isolated incidents to proclaim the falsity of a statistic that surveys 100's of thousands and even millions of people. By mathematical standards alone, the larger your sample size, the closer you get to the truth regarding the overall picture. These are statistics meant to talk about a generalization; they doesn't mean to say that men don't have unrealistic expectations or that NO women have average expectations.

  • Oh my God… I was precisely talking about this kind of shit with my girlfriend a week ago or so and It wasnt the first time.
    The talk began (again) with she judging other woman like "that girl is very short", "that girl have small breast's" and so on… PLUS she was talking like if ALL MAN shared her opinion and I was the wrong one in that topic! lol I'm sorry, who's the man here??? You? NO! I'm the man! I have another male friends and we talk about this stuff may times SO I'm the right one in this matter.
    I was very pissed-off and I told her that she was totaly wrong by all means.
    OF COURSE man like to see those perfect girls in TV ads BUT in real world that wasn't tue… I dont mind if some girl is not tall or if her boobs are not DD size. And when I say that I mean that I dont REALLY mind at all. If I'm choosing a girl to spend my life with, those topics are in the bottom of my preocupation. I will be more pissed if she is a smoker! And that matter no one talks!
    In the end, after an hour or so talking about this shit I gave up since we were not going anywhere with that talk and of course she didnt see my point of view. So she will carry on with those wrong ideas.

    • I know exactly what you're talking about. It's find it interesting that when guys hang out they talk about how beautiful women are yet when girls hang out with us, they talk about how every girl is ugly. There's a fundamental message in here which means that guys don't care to emphasis the "negative" attributes of a women; it's women who do that. If you can find a woman that can say that a girl is beautiful you should probably marry her. It means she's secure ENOUGH with herself and you as her man that she doesn't NEED to derive confidence from negatively commenting on other women. This mature attribute goes a long way as far as serious relationships because if a woman has to constantly degrade other women it means her lack of confidence is going to destroy you as well. Believe me, I know first hand.

      PS: Smoking totally turns me off when considering a relationship with a girl. It's cool for a night out or a one night stand but def not a relationship.

  • I agree with what you are saying about advertisement and where this new ideal is coming from….. On the other hand, I think the issue is more that a woman wants to feel that she's ENOUGH for someone for once…..as in : Being all you need….and this is simply not possible to attain with the men that already have what appears to be the perfect woman and yet, can't stop them selves from staring at a pair of boobs on the street or on TV like they've been locked up in a cell for most part of their adult lives. Do you realize how incredibly weird it is to hear someone saying "I love looking at big boobs but prefer my girlfriends boobs to be smaller"? It sounds more like "I love to look at big boobs, but I prefer my girlfriends boobs to be smaller so that no one else will stare at my girlfriends boobs with the same desire that I have when I stare at big boobs….", if you see what I mean ;))
    Interesting topic! Thanks for the good read!

    • It's a completely normal desire to want to feel like you are ENOUGH for someone; I understand. As men, we want to be enough for our woman as well. However, it is sometimes the case that this feeling of "not being enough" exists only in our minds. If someone chooses to be with you, you are certain "enough" on some level. Yet the mind has an infinite imagination and we tend to imagine that it's possible to be EVERYTHING to someone, and that we must be everything in order to "win" over the other competition. What I'm trying to illustrate is that men don(t actually care about perfection, and "being enough" is enough. In regards to men saying "I love looking at big boobs", these are comments that serve to express and fuel fantasy. BUT! What people have a hard time doing—especially in western culture—is separating fantasy from reality. Just because one fantasizes about something, doesn't mean it's a true desire. I fantasize about being a pilot all the time, flying at mach 3 through canyons. But, truly, I don't want to fly a plane, that's scary as hell. The same goes for big boobs, love to look at them, but the fantasy is not an accurate reflection of what we really want.

      Thanks so much for reading and taking the time to comment.

  • Oh yes, women are way harder on other women (and themselves) than men are. As for men, here's what I've found. It seems everyone thinks Angelina Jolie is beautiful, yet no man I know chooses her as their ideal woman. In fact, some think she's pretty scary. I'm amazed when men name someone really random as their ideal woman, or their "free pass" girl. There's something to be said for reality vs. fantasy. Fantasy can be quite intimidating. Good post.

    • I think you hit it rich ton the head there, "fantasy can be quite intimidating". And that's just it, people feel quite intimidated by fantasies and even mislead by them, though they are merely thoughts and imagines in the mind. Thanks for reading 😉

  • I REMEMBER THIS CONVERSATION.

  • Anonymous

    I think this is a very interesting blog and I think it's really enlightened of you to take on this topic. 🙂 I have to say, though, that it's really hard to believe that men have much lower expectations of female attractiveness with all the hooplah that surrounds any major photo shoot of starlets in men's magazines (Kate Upton in Sports Illustrated, Megan Fox in GQ, etc). It seems as though women are constantly slammed in the face with how incredibly hot these images are and it's hard not to internalize a sense of inadequacy when you look nothing like what your boyfriend and male friends are drooling over (even sneaking around to drool over behind our back). A side note, my girlfriends and I do not rip apart other girls' looks. We can completely appreciate how beautiful men find these girls. We wish we looked more like them. I know I'm not a bad looking girl – I've had my share of compliments – but it doesn't stop me from feeling inadequate. And yes, I realize that it's no one's problem but my own. But unfortunately, a lot of girls feel the same way.

    So it's not just the companies that want to make women feel inadequate so that they will buy things (ugly? buy Covergirl makeup! flat-chested? buy Victoria Secret's padded, push up bras!). It's the reactions of the men around us that also prompt us to feel this way. I like that you believe men aren't as shallow as women perceive, but from the way the men around me "rate" and "judge" a woman's appearance, the way they by-pass perfectly good, loving girls to date "hot" girls (porn star resembling girls), it's hard to really swallow any of it. And I'm 30, btw, so this isn't something confined to just young girls and guys.

    Lastly, I'm not sure how the statistic of women finding most men unattractive came about, however, most women do not prioritize a man's physical appearance when it comes to attraction the way men prioritize a woman's appearance. Women are generally more tolerant to less attractive guys because they often appreciate his other attributes. If a man doesn't find a woman physically pleasing, she doesn't have a prayer. I think it's also very idealistic to think that men don't care about these unrealistic standards of beauty in a long term relationship. When everything is fresh and new in a relationship, sure it doesn't matter as much. But when you've been together for significantly longer, I feel that these ideals of beauty have more gravity. Maybe I am wrong – sure hope so.

    • Someone once said that "talk is cheap" and actions are the only true picture of one's character or intentions. If you're boy kept telling you he was a faithful man, but you kept catching him cheating on you, which is a more accurate reflection of the kind of man he is? His words or his behavior? It's true that men do make comments, yet such comments alone aren't enough to influence an entire generation of women obsessed over looks and body image. Not without help. This paradigm shift in body image has been aided by women and corporate greed. Also a man's comment are not necessarily a reflection of his true expectations. I may fantasize about driving a ferrari, but i can honestly tell you that if I had the money, I wouldn't buy one and would much rather travel around the world and do some charity work.

      Also interesting is this idea that women don't value a man's looks so much. I think that's an archaic belief. I think women used to HAVE to settle for a man and hope he was a good one because most women became housewives and didn't work outside the home. In that time period, yes, women's expectations were extremely more tolerant. However, now that women have just as much job opportunity and income opportunity, now that birth control exists to create sexual independence for them, and now that no woman ever really NEEDS a man, the expectations of women have soared out of control. This I believed is the reflection of social change that has allow women to experience an unprecedented amount of freedom (which I completely support). This freedom from men has now offered women the right to raise their expectations above an beyond in terms of male quality, not just looks wise, but also income etc etc..

    • Anonymous

      Hi Matt 🙂 thanks for your reply. you made an interesting observation: "…a man's comment are not necessarily a reflection of his true expectations." basically, you are saying that just because the men in my life drool over these magazine girls, it doesn't mean that's all they want (which I find hard to believe, but for sake of argument i will roll with it. lol). so if guys get a free pass and don't have to mean what they say regarding what they find attractive, why can't women get the same free pass? is it possible that the data suggesting women did not find most men attractive was "not necessarily a reflection of [their] expectations" either? maybe this is women's way of saying, "most men do not look like Ryan Gosling, so they are not 'conventionally attractive', but in real life we like them anyway." doesn't seem much different than what you are implying about men.

  • Anonymous

    Let's not forget all critical comments we overhear men make about "fat chicks", "old chicks" (like over 40 jokes), "saggy chicks", etc. I wouldn't feel men were so shallow and expected so much from women physically, if I didn't hear it from the horse's mouth.

    • I don't think there's any denial over the fact that men DO make comment about women, in regards to looks etc. That's certainly the case. Yet, saying something and executing something are two different things. Most men may fantasize about getting into bed with an extremely attractive woman, but that doesn't mean they often CHOOSE these women or end up with them. And if you're going to say "They don't choose those women because those women won't date them", then it jus further proves the point that women can be JUST as judgmental toward men if not more. Even when men DO make comments about women, this doesn't mean that such comments accurately reflect their true expectations for women. Women may say less then men about mens looks (though I've heard my fair share as well), but the fact is that their behavior reflects expectations that are unrealistic. The statistics don't mean to say that every woman is like this; they mean to say that there is a definitive trend in how women view men, and that trend is saying that fewer men make the cut than women.

    • Anonymous

      So basically you are, again, saying that men don't necessarily "mean what they say". A guy who drools over an airbrushed image of an 18 yr old with D cups, etc, doesn't really want to sleep with such a girl. I find this incredibly hard to believe (like believing in the Easter Bunny….). Not sure if I'm being cynical or realistic. 😛

      Also, you tried to point out how judgmental women can be ("those hot women would never date the average guy"), but how is that any worse than what you are saying (men don't really mean everything they say – don't buy everything that comes out of their mouths). I always thought that line of thinking really offended men.

      Not trying to be difficult, I like exploring these ideas w you. 🙂

    • Anonymous

      If guys didn't make all those disparaging comments about female physique (and we women didn't actually hear you guys say it!), there would be little place for women to imitate you all (by dissecting female appearances) and those comments wouldn't be exploited in marketing. if women didn't feel that they so desperately had to vie for the attention/affection of such discriminating judges of physique (men), they wouldn't be tearing each other down to compete.

    • I don't it's accurate to say that men "don't mean what they say". I think a fantasy is definitely something to be desired, and in that respect, men enjoy the fantasy, but that does not mean they CHOOSE the fantasy. We all have fantasies. I want to have a new ferrari, but if i ever had the money I wouldn't really buy one, I'ld travel the world and do charity work. This doesn't mean to say that I truly don't desire the Ferrari, I do. It means the say that the fantasy is not as important as what I really choose, and what I really want—which is to travel the world and do charity work and write. It's a fine line indeed, but saying that the desires of men's fantasies are "false" and that women shouldn't believe them, is not exactly the point. the point is understand the difference between fantasy and reality. Reality should always take precedent along with common sense.

  • Even if we have to look at surveys whether men or women are victims of this and that, for me, these are all natural results of human's natural way survival. Survival in a sense that they need; women and men alike, to stand up, dressed up and be noticed to live the life as it should be.
    Talking about the consumerism activities of women, I think this is just the same with men too. With statistics or none to back that claim. It's just that most men are too shy to open up, talk about or act out. Good thing, men are not like peacock, which always display their beautiful color of feathers to attract peahens for them to laid onto. LOL!
    It's true that women especially sexy women, can be found on every advertisements flashing on different billboards and cladding on different magazines, but this doesn't mean that women are there to allude only the desires of men. Women likes to watch other women too as their inspirations. That being said, gone are the days that advertisements aim only one line of targets. It's always other way around. And to think that the ones responsible of these women dominated advertisements were men. 🙂
    So what I'm trying to say here is, the post is somewhat bias in itself that loses its primary purpose, which is supposed to bring out or solve out biased information. The title alone shows hatred to women. 🙁 By the way I'm a guy and I am just sayin all these based on the way I understood the article. 🙂

    • I don't think it's fair to say that this post is completely bias. I would venture to say that it is an observation sprinkled with accounts of first hand experience. I'm merely reporting on statistics and offering comments and supporting experienced based on those numbers. Of course no source can be completely unbiased but it's important to get a different view as I think we've heard quite a bit about how men destroy women.

      I also don't this its accurate to say that the titles suggests a hatred of women. It simply states what the articles focus is on. It doesn't make any subjective judgement. Saying that women have unrealistic expectations doesn't mean that they are hated for this.

    • 🙂 then thank you for that Matt. i was just heeding to your request below, "Please, intrigue me with your thoughts", that is why i made that comment. LOL! just kidding.

      anyway, just to make it clear, i am not against to your article, i was just jotting down as a comment, with all honesty, what i felt after reading it. i respect your opinion and that is the essence in blogging.

      will be visiting your sites as often as i could and looking forward to another interesting and "intriguing" post. cheers man!

    • Thanks so much for your support! I really enjoy reading everyone's comments. Please return!

  • A great analysis. I think for the most part, it is an individual thing as opposed to a generic ‘men’ or ‘women’ thing. It’s hard for us not to generalize… it’s what we do. I think many women put the stress of looking good on themselves and it’s bred into us to do all we can to attract a mate… I’m assuming that’s why so many of us let ourselves go once we get what we set out to get.

    Much of the ‘visual aids’ we have in media are aimed towards men… what they in turn do with that data is up to them. On the other hand, women participate in the ‘making of’ voluntarily and many thrive on the attention from it. Is it the man’s fault or the woman’s fault? Hard to say. I can tell you this… it’s not just men who like to look at good looking people… I can appreciate a hot man on my computer screen or in the movies but I pretty much assume it’s all surface and there’s nothing more to see. It’s an unfair statement, I know, but there it is.

    The whole issue is within each person’s mind but those who influence what we see are not actually the majority of people. Much like politicians making decisions for the country, entertainers create expectations most of us can never meet. Have you ever noticed that the women we take pictures of are perfectly symmetrical? Real women are not the same from one side of the body to the other. Pictures of men are clean, no body hair, perfectly even body toning and no hair around their nipples (LOL). I have never come across a real man who was quite that ‘beautiful’.

    I am truthfully harder on myself than others are… looking in the mirror at the new lines around my eyes, thinking my hips are too wide, worrying about my body tone, hating the fact my hair gives away my age (hence the dye). I remind myself that life is life and each stage of it brings a different kind of beauty… one day I will be a beautiful grandmother… though for now, I fight aging. But I also know I’m not ugly and I would indeed fall into the 90% category… but I’m going to score above average, damn it! From a 1 to 10, I’ll give myself a 7 and work on an 8… but nothing more than that because then I would just be a stuck up bitch. 😉

    • Haha I'm glad that your rate yourself well enough. Though to be sure, as you said, the topic is indeed a complicated one. I don't think it's accurate merely to explain that this comes from that or that is the cause of this, but rather to understand that no one source is a cause of anything. The true aim of this essay was to expose the role of women in the destruction of themselves, as del as the role of corporate advertising. Truly the deep seeded issue happens to be the point at which the desires of the masses confirm to the desires of few. This meaning that our own true desires (our true expectations) therefore being replaced by the expectations of larger influential powers (corporate advertising, etc). too much emphasis on either as the cause of such issues is a folly. Many advertisements are aimed toward men, not because the market hopes to appeal to the true expectations of men, but rather because much of market still believes that more men have more money than women, and that men will spend foolishly for women. Despite the fact that women are unquestionably able to earn an equal amount of money as men, advertising agencies hit two birds with one stone by created ads geared toward the attention of both men and women.

    • This can lead to many discussions about men and women and how they affect one another. I'm quite certain that many of us let outside forces tell us how to think even when we deny it. I think a certain way… but why do I think that way? Out of defiance or perhaps because I'm right… or maybe it's all reverse psychology. There are some clever people in the world and I’m sure some have put information out I the media just to see how many people will believe them and follow them. I would like to believe I think for myself mainly because I watch others falling in line with stereotypes and they can’t see they’re doing it. But maybe I am as well and can’t see my own ignorance. As to destroying myself by trying to be a super model… that won’t happen… not because I don’t believe in myself… not because I’m a freak… mainly because I can’t fake it very well and being beautiful all the time has got to be some seriously hard work. And dealing with all the other beautifully fake people has to be less than enjoyable as well. That was meant to be funny!

    • Well we can't all be as beautiful as me. (That was meant to be funny too)! I see what you mean though. I think the trick is really letting go and asking yourself what the point really is? If the point of beauty is to attract someone, then you have to ask yourself what kind of person are you trying to attract? If the point is to feel good about yourself, then you have to ask yourself what happens when age kicks in and you have to struggle to look and feel good? Investing in conventional beauty is hard work, but if you can see something different, a new definition of beauty if you will, then maybe you'll be okay and everything else kind of just fades into the background.

  • Women are no different from men in all the points you've made. Men become obese because women want them to be big and bulky. But if you tell them that, they'd laugh at you, but every guy here know's it's true. Women sleep around on guys as much as guys sleep around on women. or how bout my personal favorite, women love to make a guy think she's into him so he'll take the bait thinking it's going somewhere only for her to reject him when he actually asks her out or someone better comes along, just so she can feel liked. To me, that is the ultimate form of selfishness and every woman does it, so who are the pigs exactly?

    • In more or less words I agree with you. Thought I'm carefully about calling either gender "pigs" or "bad guys". The fact is, as you said, both genders engage in the same behavior. I think most of my issue with these kind of scenarios is that, for the most part, we only hear of the evils of men, and quite rarely hear of how women contribute to their own demise. It can't be the case that men are the destroyers of women. It must be more than that. That is my believe.

  • Anonymous

    Magazines and advertising aside, I've noticed men say that they prefer "natural women" (women with real/smaller breasts, minimal makeup, healthy proportions, etc), but I've seen these same men drool over women with plastic surgery or faces aptly spray-painted with makeup, because these women resemble what men enjoy staring at in magazines and porn. Often times, these are the women that get asked out. I do think there is a lot of truth to men's desires contributing to the female's struggle for perfection. It's all fine and good that most men find most women attractive, but men want to date the arm candy (the MOST or MORE attractive female – not just a female who is passingly attractive). Just honest, though troubling, observation.

    • Men drooling over women does not mean that they DON'T actually prefer "natural women". It is certainly possible to enjoy both. What I think you're displaying is the same kind of black/white thinking that actually creates the kind of unrealistic expectations that women are presenting. Think about it. You are indeed suggesting that because a man is attracted to these "perfect women" that they don't also enjoy "naturally beautiful women. Again, we are talking about EXPECTATIONS. Because I drool all over a Ferrari doesn't mean I actually expect to have one, does not mean that I don't ACCEPT and welcome other cars into my life happily. A fantasy is NOT necessarily an expectation. Women need to realize this because that's where they are going wrong.

    • Anonymous

      If men don't explicitly tell women that they prefer or enjoy or are at least willing to settle for "natural", and all we hear about is how "hot" the unnatural and fake is – it's really easy to see why women are where they are right now. When there is positive reinforcement of the unnatural and minimal attention paid towards the natural, it's misleading about what men find attractive (or at least tolerable). Compound this with the media and advertising, which TELLS women that they need to change to be sexy (to sell products), well, it's easy to see why women feel the need to change. Personal anecdote: There's a girl in my class (in grad school) who has implants. She basically looks like a toothpick with C cups stuck on and a fake tan and she's actually quite unfriendly, crude, loud, and not the brightest in our class. All the guys in our class know the boobs are fake and that she's a b!tch otherwise, but they practically trip over themselves to get to her. So I kind of doubt the whole preference for "natural" to be honest. But I think it's nice to pretend that guys are less shallow than they seem. If you truly do prefer "natural" I hope that you make it known (within appropriate social situations, of course), that you feel this way. I'm pretty sure there are women in your company, who might not say anything but will appreciate your down-to-earthness on the inside. 🙂

  • Anonymous

    If all I hear about is how hot the fake girls are in real life, how hot the fake girls are in men's magazines, how hot the fake girls are in porn, in movies, on tv, in music videos, etc. And I rarely (if ever) hear about how hot natural girls are. What conclusions can I draw about what I need to look like to attract mens' attention?

    Now throw in what the media, Hollywood, and corporations tell me is hot.

    Do you see where I'm coming from?

    I'm not as insecure as all that – but it does chip at my self esteem (and I KNOW it does to my friends and female classmates, too). I'm not trying to argue, just trying to explain. 🙂

    • Anonymous

      I'm really interested to see how Matt Rose will respond to this comment (if at all). How will he choose to shift "blame" from men to women or discredit what comes out of male mouths this time? Or will he finally acknowledge that men DO contribute to the unrealistic expectations of women. The suspense is just killing me! 😉

    • I really can't esist an intellectual challenge 🙂 So to address the comment, I will start by saying this: this essay does not mean to "shift" the cause of body image problems from men to women. Truly no shifting is necessary because blame lies with both men and women. That being said, there is no claim here that means to suggest that men don't contribute to some potion of these problems. Yet all we hear about is how men are the cause of all of women's problems, which simply isn't true. To deny this is to be blind. Women often talk about how they wish to be represented fairly, well guess what, so do men. Just because 2 or 4 or even every man YOU have met in your life, has told you that they like "fake women", those men do not represent the majority of men and cannot explain away a study that includes 100's of thousands of men and women. Life is also about choice, and if the
      Men around you say those things constantly to the point where it affects you, get some to men in your life. Move. Get better friends, because your experience and the experiences of women I know aren't the same. Natural women are loved and you don't have to be Sherlock Holmes or Indiana Jones to find it. Again I say, just because it has been your experience that some men say those things, it doesn't represent the majority of men. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if many women aren't listening well enough and find themselves attracted to the wrong men. Nearly all of my guy friends admit to liking natural women, but women aren't even asking those questions. Women are just talking and saying what they've heard men say. I you ask most men blankly, the expectations and requirements they have for their lovers are not that difficult to aspire to, and as the data shows, nearly 90% of women fit the bill.

    • Anonymous

      lol. cool. I appreciate your response, Matt. 🙂 Maybe we both learned something about the opposite sex's perspective. I will acknowledge that women do rip into each other's appearances and maybe you realize that men really DO come off as more superficial than perhaps they really are (or at least a sizeable portion of men). I really like that you broached this topic – I think guys being honest about their feelings for "natural" helps to ground women, so that they don't buy into what industry, other women, and some men tell them. 🙂

  • Anonymous

    Ah, you've missed several of my rants about women swallowing the porn star/stripper aesthetic, which is driven largely by males, and the insane mentality of girls competing with girls, etc etc. Anonymous, above, is spot on with this comment: "If all I hear about is how hot the fake girls are in real life, how hot the fake girls are in men's magazines, how hot the fake girls are in porn, in movies, on tv, in music videos, etc. And I rarely (if ever) hear about how hot natural girls are. What conclusions can I draw about what I need to look like to attract mens' attention? Now throw in what the media, Hollywood, and corporations tell me is hot. Do you see where I'm coming from?"

    You also weren't privy to several conversations I've had with male friends who have told me that my collarbone length hair isn't long enough and that no man will find me attractive until I grow my hair longer, keep it straight all the time, and wear skirts more often. That's all on you, guys.

    I will observe that in other parts of the US (west/northwest/VT) this porn/hooker aesthetic is not used as the yardstick for female attractiveness. – S.

  • S.

    Pop culture is one thing, and is quite destrucive. Real life men are just as bad or worse. Witness this gutsy article, and make sure you read the gasp-inducing comments of the vicious, cruel things men say to women. I'll give you just one of what I've heard: "You're not thin. You're too big." I am 5' 5" with 20.1BMI and a 26 inch waist and everything else proportionate. Except the boobs, which need augmentation, according to too many guys to keep track of. And so it goes. Men rail about women being neurotic, while they bash us left and right. Sad.
    http://www.howaboutwe.com/date-report/you-are-not-too-anything-for-anyone-a-daters-manifesto/#

  • S.

    The media's unrealistic expectations are destructive. Real life men's comments are just as bad or worse. Doesn't matter what you look like, I'm sure no U.S. female is immune to the cruel, vicious things men will say to women's faces. I've been told I'm "too big" and "not thin." At 5' 5" with a 26" waist and everything else proportionate, except for the boobs, which need augmentation, according to way too many fools to keep track of. The essay is excellent, the comments show this is not women making up their own neuroses. And guys, if you're sick of women being insecure and worried about how we look, stop telling us we're disgusting – it ain't rocket science, bros.
    http://jezebel.com/5904952/for-chrissakes-there-is-nothing-wrong-with-you-a-dating-manifesto

  • Rebecca

    Um, it’s men that control the media and thus control the messages that women receive. Men own all these companies and are in charge of all these things! It might be a good idea to do more research before posting all this nonsense.

    • Perhaps YOU should read more carefully, as the article doesn’t mean to suggest that men don’t run media companies. The article means to dispel the notion that body images come from men’s true expectations about the women they like. Women claim that such body image pressures come from male expectations, when research supports that its in fact not true. Instead, it is the BELIEFS that women have about male expectations that spur this trend. As evidence by empirical data, male expectations about women fall under a complete normal curve, and therefore reflect moderate standards, as opposed to women. This myth that males expect perfect bodies is what that section tries to highlight. Please be more thorough in your reading before posting irrelevant comments. Thank you.

      • Brian Hull

        And many women judge by height, probably more than men judging by weight- and height is both A) impossible to change and B) says nothing about your overall fitness level, unlike weight.

    • Brian Hull

      most of my friends are women, and media ain’t got nothing to do with it. know what media also tells us? that all men should be TALL and have 10% body fat. that’s all bullcrap, and the media can’t tell you what’s really attractive about yourself anyway.

      Know what’s even sexier than confidence? JOY. be yourself and be at peace with it, follow your passion, and bet your life on the fact that adding discipline into your life always brings more joy with it. there is no other result for that equation. You don’t have to be a size 4 to be sexy, but unhappy people are almost universally unattractive.

  • Rebecca

    Um, it's men that control the media and thus control the messages that women receive. Men own all these companies and are in charge of all these things! It might be a good idea to do more research before posting all this nonsense.

  • Perhaps YOU should read more carefully, as the article doesn't mean to suggest that men don't run media companies. The article means to dispel the notion that body images come from men's true expectations about the women they like. Women claim that such body image pressures come from male expectations, when research supports that its in fact not true. Instead, it is the BELIEFS that women have about male expectations that spur this trend. As evidence by empirical data, male expectations about women fall under a complete normal curve, and therefore reflect moderate standards, as opposed to women. This myth that males expect perfect bodies is what that section tries to highlight. Please be more thorough in your reading before posting irrelevant comments. Thank you.

  • I love this one! You are so right on! We pick on ourselves like crazy thinking you guys want us to have big boobs and surgery. Truth this, attraction just happens. Regardless of what size your boobs are or what you have going on that’s not in a magazine, if a man and woman have sparks; they just do! Great post!!

    • Thanks so much for reading and commenting Stephanie! It means a lot to hear braver comments from women that AT LEAST understand that it’s not as simple as just blaming men. 🙂

      • It’s all just self esteem! We need to start loving our bodies and not hating them! You do t see men standing at mirrors,”oh my God, I’m so fat!” or “I’m not ripped enough” haha
        🙂

    • Brian Hull

      you are so so right! I keep in shape and i don’t generally date women who are overweight, but when i worked for a software company here in ATX our receptionist was a thicker than i’m normally into, but she could hang with the guys, she was witty as hell, and had these evil narrow eyes just made her insanely sexy. just SEXY as hell and nobody could really figure out why, she just has a ton of confidence and knew what she was doing. and she was definitely beautiful, just liked food lol.

      so WHO you are definitely plays into it, and sexiness can be enhanced by your appearance, but the two are not synonymous. some girls have less beauty and more sexy, and some girls are hot as hell and in the bedroom more boring than you could think possible and their hotness plummets as a result.

      people need to stop worrying about this shit so much- take basic care of yourself, follow your passion, and the JOY people see when they experience you will draw them into your life.

  • I love this one! You are so right on! We pick on ourselves like crazy thinking you guys want us to have big boobs and surgery. Truth this, attraction just happens. Regardless of what size your boobs are or what you have going on that's not in a magazine, if a man and woman have sparks; they just do! Great post!!

  • Thanks so much for reading and commenting Stephanie! It means a lot to hear braver comments from women that AT LEAST understand that it's not as simple as just blaming men. 🙂

  • It's all just self esteem! We need to start loving our bodies and not hating them! You do t see men standing at mirrors,"oh my God, I'm so fat!" or "I'm not ripped enough" haha
    🙂

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  • Unknown

    Women are very critical about appearances of both female and male. But when it comes down to choosing a partner, women are more interested in personality, stability and character than appearances. Men focus more on appearance as a first elimination process while dating. Women place more emphasis on whether or not their partner can be a family man for which appearance is not very useful.

    • Susan

      I don’t think that is true any more. Many women are having children outside of marriage and not necessarily with men who would be described as “family men.” Besides, now that women have more access to resources such as career opportunities, child support and government support (social services, welfare), they are more likely to file for divorce from family men when they become bored with them.

      • guitarfan29

        Yep, the state has become daddy, women dispose of men like used milk cartons.

    • obsession

      What? Have you been living under a rock for the last 20 years? When it comes to choosing a partner allllll that women go by is looks until they get to age 30 where they cannot influence the men they prefer anymore and are forced to consider other qualities. This looks centered dating style shuts out about 80% of the males for most of the girl’s life leading to either a flood of women for the rare few or massive dry spells on the part of the males. This is where all the bitterness comes from. Every man rates himself by how many women he can get from his cohort of females. Today’s man is angry and with due cause. This recent generation of females have curdled their vaginas with casual sex, destroyed their fertility with nonsense careerism and idiotic trend seeking or created a rejection legacy so profound that no male cares about them now.

    • Brian Hull

      Men are just as focused on deeper things ONCE the initial attraction has been dealt with. I date attractive women, but once that standard is met i no longer worry about attraction, it’s not a scale of 1-10 it’s either ON or OFF. if i’m sexually attracted to her it’s time to explore other things about her, and if i like her she will become MORE attractive over time than she already is- if on the other hand she’s unbearable or we just aren’t compatible she will become less and less attractive.

      Hotness gets you the interview, who you are gets you the job. But I take care of myself and if she doesn’t, there won’t be an interview.

  • Unknown

    Women are very critical about appearances of both female and male. But when it comes down to choosing a partner, women are more interested in personality, stability and character than appearances. Men focus more on appearance as a first elimination process while dating. Women place more emphasis on whether or not their partner can be a family man for which appearance is not very useful.

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  • Anonymous

    I personally think it is true that women are self-critical, but on the other hand, this doesn’t appear from nowhere. This article pinpoints the fact that women in magazines and on adverts make women feel inferior, and as though they have to work at their appearance constantly. However, for me as a young woman, I am conflicted, I personally look for personality in men, and looks are a bonus, as long as they loom after what they do have such as washing and brushing teeth etc. Yet, it is also clear from general comments from men, facial expressions in public and social networking sites that women that are socially ‘hot’ for example bigger boobs, long hair, perfect smile and skinny legs are much more likely to receive compliments and get noticed. It seems like the traditional values in a relationship such as personality and loving the individual not their appearance are lacking nowadays. I don’t believe that women with a little extra weight are less likely to be ‘asked out’ however, there are men, and women too, who enjoy criticising these women to make themselves feel better. I don’t believe there is a genuine account of a man’s ‘ideal woman’ as it is likely that men would like a thigh gap, a skinny waist, a big bum and big boobs, but, like women, they are not shallow and narrow minded. The sight of two people being together, and feeling comfortable in themselves, is beautiful, the relationship is what truly matters, therefore, the fact that both genders are constantly trying to ‘improve’ and ‘change’ themselves is a shame 🙂

    • Brian Hull

      don’t you think these standards would be different if our society said it was EVER ok for a woman to approach a man? Expect the male to do 100% of the chasing when it comes to courtship, and you’re going to have to give him something to chase- attraction. Women present a tempting target, and men give chase. Until the day women approach men exactly 50% of the time, this is where we’re at.

  • Anonymous

    I personally think it is true that women are self-critical, but on the other hand, this doesn't appear from nowhere. This article pinpoints the fact that women in magazines and on adverts make women feel inferior, and as though they have to work at their appearance constantly. However, for me as a young woman, I am conflicted, I personally look for personality in men, and looks are a bonus, as long as they loom after what they do have such as washing and brushing teeth etc. Yet, it is also clear from general comments from men, facial expressions in public and social networking sites that women that are socially 'hot' for example bigger boobs, long hair, perfect smile and skinny legs are much more likely to receive compliments and get noticed. It seems like the traditional values in a relationship such as personality and loving the individual not their appearance are lacking nowadays. I don't believe that women with a little extra weight are less likely to be 'asked out' however, there are men, and women too, who enjoy criticising these women to make themselves feel better. I don't believe there is a genuine account of a man's 'ideal woman' as it is likely that men would like a thigh gap, a skinny waist, a big bum and big boobs, but, like women, they are not shallow and narrow minded. The sight of two people being together, and feeling comfortable in themselves, is beautiful, the relationship is what truly matters, therefore, the fact that both genders are constantly trying to 'improve' and 'change' themselves is a shame 🙂

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  • Susan

    Linda, I think you are interpreting a comment against men. If a woman said that she loves looking at big muscles on a man but prefers her own boyfriend’s muscles to be smaller, would you interpret that to mean that she just doesn’t want other women to stare at her boyfriend with the same desire that she has when she stares at big muscles? Or would you interpret that to mean that she doesn’t necessarily need her boyfriend to have big muscles? Once again, there is always this assumption that it is only men that have questionable intent. Treat men the way you want to be treated. How would you like it if men interpreted every comment you make against you?

  • Susan

    Linda, I think you are interpreting a comment against men. If a woman said that she loves looking at big muscles on a man but prefers her own boyfriend's muscles to be smaller, would you interpret that to mean that she just doesn't want other women to stare at her boyfriend with the same desire that she has when she stares at big muscles? Or would you interpret that to mean that she doesn't necessarily need her boyfriend to have big muscles? Once again, there is always this assumption that it is only men that have questionable intent. Treat men the way you want to be treated. How would you like it if men interpreted every comment you make against you?

  • Susan

    I don't think that is true any more. Many women are having children outside of marriage and not necessarily with men who would be described as "family men." Besides, now that women have more access to resources such as career opportunities, child support and government support (social services, welfare), they are more likely to file for divorce from family men when they become bored with them.

  • Elizabeth

    Buddy, I’m guessing you don’t get laid much. What you failed to consider is how much attractiveness affects whether or not a woman will date a man. In my experience, attractiveness beyond a basic level is pretty low on the totem pole of criteria in my decision making process of who to date. Guys, on the other hand, based on my 13 years post divorce dating and raising three sons, put physical attractiveness pretty damn high on their totem pole criteria (so to speak), and weight is a huge factor. Much less so for women. In other words, women are better able to look beyond the packaging than men are. We spend so much time and energy on our packages because men demand it. I don’t need an OK Cupid study to give me the demographics of their research. I’ve been doing my own for years.

    • guitarfan29

      Ya, fuck that data, rationalize away!

    • Tyler

      While women may not put as much weight on looks, they put it on a man’s career/income. The work women have to do on their looks, men feel they have to do on their career just to keep up with women’s demands. Even in the modern day where women have just as good or better jobs than men, they still look for a certain income usually, in my experience. So we just trade one pressure for another.

    • Brian Hull

      Right back at ya. How many women will date a guy who isn’t much to look at, doesn’t have much of a job, or a car, or confidence, or money. Men and women are shallow in different ways, and plenty of guys (myself not included) will date a hot girl who has NOTHING else going for her. Women who have more than 1% self esteem will not date a guy who has nothing going for him, men are judged by accomplishments more than women.

      Men are also judged by HEIGHT far more than women are judged by weight. And height is not a measure of your physical fitness in any way shape or form, it is 100% shallow. Weight on the other hand illustrates your lifestyle, choices, and fitness level at a casual glance. Not everyone has to be an olympic athlete, but humans are not meant to be sedentary- we are naturally beautiful, all it takes is a little discipline.

  • Elizabeth

    Buddy, I'm guessing you don't get laid much. What you failed to consider is how much attractiveness affects whether or not a woman will date a man. In my experience, attractiveness beyond a basic level is pretty low on the totem pole of criteria in my decision making process of who to date. Guys, on the other hand, based on my 13 years post divorce dating and raising three sons, put physical attractiveness pretty damn high on their totem pole criteria (so to speak), and weight is a huge factor. Much less so for women. In other words, women are better able to look beyond the packaging than men are. We spend so much time and energy on our packages because men demand it. I don't need an OK Cupid study to give me the demographics of their research. I've been doing my own for years.

  • Anonymous

    Imagine that every time you wanted to go on a first date to a guy, you first had to get up and speak in front of a full classroom or conference. Imagine you are walking down the aisle in the grocery store and a tall, attractive man turns towards you and is about to say something, when suddenly everything freezes and you find yourself sitting in a high-school classroom, being told that next week you will be expected to speak in front of the class, alone, for 15 minutes about an assigned topic. Remember that feeling of dread you used to get when the teacher made that announcement? That is precisely how it feels for most men when they are faced with approaching a random hot girl for the first time.

    But it isn't even that simple. For the analogy to be accurate, you won't only have to swallow your pride, get up there, and do the presentation, but you will actually have to achieve a grade of 80 % or higher if you want the guy to ask for your phone number. It will be difficult to present the material naturally when you are nervous, because you will probably rush through it, maybe forget certain details, or speak too quietly. You posture will matter a lot too, but it is difficult to stand up straight when you are nervous. So your nerves will not only make accepting the challenge difficult, but they also destroy your chances of earning the requisite 80 %. Actually summoning up the guts to push through that initial fear is nowhere near enough.

    Don't forget that in addition to the quality of your public speaking itself, the content of your presentation will need to be interesting and original. You won't be able to impress the class or the teacher with mere poise; you will also have to show them that you know what you are talking about – that you are intelligent and understand the material well. At the same time, you shouldn't overdo this demonstration, because if you try too hard to impress them, it will be obvious that your knowledge isn't organic, that it was rehearsed for this event only.

    There is more. Remember that you will be graded on a curve, relative to the other students giving presentations – just like a man is always judged relative to a woman's other male options. And there will always be other students in the class that are naturally more gifted than you. Remember that nerd that always looked like he owned the class when he got up there to give his presentation? Not only was he confident, but he also made it painfully clear that he knew exactly what he was talking about – probably better even than the teacher. You were the first in the class to present, and he was one of the last students. Trying to get a better grade on your presentation than that kid is what it is like for most guys who want to talk to that beautiful brunette in the corner, who is standing right next to a 6'3" athletic, good-looking and cocky guy, who has probably bedded dozens of girls like her. You got up in front of the class to compete with the nerd because your teacher required it. Would you have done it if you'd been given the chance to opt out? What motivation does the guy in the bar have to challenge himself?

  • Carrie 20

    Thank you for posting this article, it’s good to know men have realistic expectations for what they want women to look like. I wish I would have known this when I was younger because I would have put myself out there more. Now that I’m approaching 30, I realize men aren’t as picky as I initially thought, & that I could have easily found someone who excepts me for who I am. But the one deal breaker men have is age, they want someone younger, & I’m afraid I may have missed the bus in finding love.

    • No not despair Carrie. It is true what you say, that younger women have is “easier”. However, there are other needs of men that younger women simply can never satisfy—experience and intelligence. I can tell you first hand that as my male friends and I age, I’ve watched they chase after girls in their early 20’s and it never ends well. Nearly ever time they disclose feeling as though these young women have nothing of substance to add to conversation, they drink too much, they care too much much about things that are irrelevant, like what Kim Kardasian is doing. It’s silliness. So, while I understand your inclination to give up, don’t. Love doesn’t come in a specific package, and often times it grows from places we never even expected. Don’t give up.

  • x

    i completely agree with you. men have just as much social expectations as women do. for example go onto google and type in boys are . and don’t press search and just look at the suggestions. boys are pigs. boys are stupid throw rocks at them. men are expected to be extremely kind and super buff and super handsome. so if a hot guy flirts with a girl its cute. but if an ugly guy does he’s creepy.

    • I was thinking about this just the other day, as one of my girl friends was talking about “creepers”. I found it interesting that how creepy a guy is seems to be related to whether or not the woman is attracted to him. Ugly guy? Anything he does is going to be creepy. But and attractive man can do whatever he wants and it’s just being “sweet” or “charming”. In Psychology this is called the “Halo Effect”.

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  • Can we also talk about the fact that the only way for men to get laid in today’s society is to risk going to prison? Women expect men to read their minds. If one guy makes a move without asking, it could potentially be sexual assault, if another guy does ask, its sexual harassment. If you don’t do anything though, you’ll never get laid and you’ll never get a girlfriend because women refuse to make a move on men. Seriously what are men supposed to do? And why do we have to have this absolutely ironclad confidence in order to get laid? Women aren’t willing to accept anything but perfection and its making me depressed because I can’t read minds and pursuing what I want most in life is probably going to destroy my life. Well I’m sorry for not having unshakable confidence when it comes to pursuing a woman after being falsely accused of sexual harassment and trespassing by three different girls, and knowing two other guys who’ve been falsely accused of sexual harassment and rape.

    Why don’t women pursue men for a change? You have nothing to lose. Men will never falsely accuse women, you don’t have to worry about sexual assault anymore, at least 50% of guys will be so happy to be approached for once in their life that they’ll probably do whatever you want.

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  • Niv

    Allot of bullshit in this post.

    Women want allot more than men want in a relationship…
    Men just want their preferred body type which surprise!, isn’t the fatties.
    And wanting an honest, respectful female is also not allot to ask for…
    But for some reason those basic standards for a decent female human being are
    impossible to find among today’s generation of slut empowered man hating ogres.

    Meanwhile women want $, 6ft tall men with giant dildo sized cocks, free rides and all the easiest forms
    of high paying labor western society has to offer while men are still forced to perform the hardest of labors and chores. Well women have it in today’s society, but the bitching still persists… And men are ALL OUT of fucks to give.

    If you want to be a decent person in today’s society as a woman, lower your standards or die with cats. Men are getting smarter, we are not as easily manipulated as your daddy or baby daddy was. Cucks will be wiped out, along with all the free rides and hypocritical double standards.